Articol interesant despre pastilele de piele

Bine ati venit ! Aici scrieti despre experiente si alte chestii generale legate de biliard, daca vreti sa filozofati, sa analizati ...... Va rog nu postati despre categorii care au topic separat cum ar fi vanzare, live stream ....

Articol interesant despre pastilele de piele

Postby Drake » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:20 pm

Am gasit si citit acest articol scris de un cunoscut jucator pe un forum strain si consider ca omul are dreptate in ceea ce spune.
Ce credeti?

TIPS WHAT IS THE BEST ONE TO USE IN POOL

That is the question, and it drives most of you nuts. What is the best tip?
Every time a new tip comes out, and gets hot, and all your pals start talking about it and using it, you change, jump on it. You soon become like a bee, flying to flower to flower, in an endless circle that never ends. In the last 5 years, ask yourself, how many different tips have you gone through, and why?

Why are you doing this? Ask it? I’ll wait. Pause……………….There is no way you could put on and test them all, it could take you years and cost you a fortune to do that. You spend a lot of money, trying out this and that tip, and end the end, you may not admit it, but most of you end up without a clue. It’s hard not to follow and jump on the latest greatest newest thing out. We all do this. We hear its great and man we want it now. And the people selling these, load you up with hype and promises like the Democratic Party. And you fool believe every word they tell you. Here is the hard truth; most of you would not know a great tip from a so so tip. You just listen to what others tell you are good, and you jump on that. And here is the other one you do, if you pay $20 for a tip, or $40 to $45 to have it installed, no way are you going to admit it’s a pos over priced loser. You are going to find a way, to justify your buy, and want to feel it and make it work. You are going to tell everyone how great it is, because you bozo don’t have a fookin clue.

When prospective buyers come into my teaching table in Atlanta, I have 17 shafts, set up with all the top tips. One can play with all of them and in an hour, and then know which one works for him. Short of doing that, you will never figure it out or ever know.
I had ignored for a long time all of these latest and greatest, newest things. I had been using the Triangle tip for years, which I pressed, my secret method. There is a following with this. The triangle has the durometer reading equal to the Moori H, or Q, and my pressing it, probably made it half way between the Talisman H and the X. That was the tip I set all my power world records in pool with, it worked, why would I search or want anything else. But I did.

But I kept hearing about this new great tip, and that one, and finally curiosity killed the cat and I sat out to find out for myself, was there something beyond my triangle, better than it. I don’t care what I play with. All I seek is the best one, the one with the best performance. Even though I was very happy with the Triangle, when a better tip came along and outperformed it, I dropped it like a bad habit. I will drop a cue for the same reason. I am not glued to anything. All I want is the truth on them. To find the truth, you don’t get it from the guy making it. We will unload a load of BS on you a yard wide.

Here is now it works, when anything new comes out, a tip, a shaft, a cue, they pay a few top pros to use it and put their name on it. They fill the pros pocket full of this new tip and pay him to walk around the BCA show, or any show, giving these tips to other top players, telling them how great they are. This is how you launch a new product. These are round heeled ho’s dead broke and they would put their name on a sack of warm dog shit as a shaft slicker if you paid them. Their name, their endorsement on anything, should be dismissed as worthless.
Then they give the new thing away to all the top players or pros, so they will use it, you will see them using it, and you will want it.
And then, it all becomes monkey see monkey do from that point on down. You see the top player in your joint using this or that, and you now have to have it.


I set out to solve this mystery and to get to the bottom of this. So I acquired the top 27 tips, I sell 35 different tip in my store. I took them to a 9’ gold crown, with simonis 860 brand new cloth, brought in two balabushka cues, GB-7’s, and 4 equal taper shafts, both 12.5mm, and realizing not all of the tips made a H, or an X, we tested them all at the M.

We installed 8 tips on 8 shafts, using a Willard $500 tip machine, and each shaft/tip was marked so the shooter could not know what the tip was. Each of us would then be given 4 shafts, with 4 different tips, and each of us would be testing a different tip at the same time. This was done since Jim put the tips on, he might know, so each tips was painted black to disguise it from him, and when he finished the 4 installs, I would mark the 4 shafts with numbers, spin them, shuffle them like cards, hand them to him, they he had no idea, which tip was on each of his shafts.

The testing was blind, like a wine tasting. Tip one was put on 4 shafts, and two pros, me, a world champion and billiard accredited world expert, shot one, and the GM of Atlanta Billiards, Jim Lewis, another pro, shot the 2nd shaft. Jim had run one of the top pool halls in Atlanta for over a decade and was one of the best tip installers I ever saw. He could feel how good a tip was during the install and file down. He could play and knew more about tips than I did. Each tip was installed and taken down the same amount so as not to favor one. It was the same amount most installed do. Note, the Talisman is domed and already shaped like the Classic Chandevierts out of Paris, so they all were thinner.

We took every tip through a long series of tests, draw, follow, spins, and a series of test shots. On each test, we rated the tip on a scale of 1-10. When that tip ran the gauntlet we took it off, put on the next one, and on and on this went for 2 l/2 days. We both were crazy enough to do this both wanting to know. Neither of us, knew what tip we were ever shooting with, all we saw was number 1, or 12, and its identity was hidden to us. Neither of us was allowed to share, or discuss what we thought of each tip. Our ratings, were hidden from each other.
When we finished, we cut the tips off, installed 4 more, and continued. Jim installed every tip, so there was consistency with that. Jim is the best tip installer I ever saw.
I expected me to choose one different from Jim, but I was astonished to find out when we totaled it all up, we both had the same winner, the same conclusion.
The best tip was, Talisman…………..

Very close in the ratings was the Morri and the Kamui, the Sniper fared well and my Triangle pressed special tip also was close.
In the break and jump tip category, the winner was the Talisman XX break and jump tip, with the Samsara coming in close behind.
Let me make one point, of which I will swear on a bible, I was not paid by Talisman to perform this test, they don’t pay me to play with their tip, they do not sponsor me, they have never paid me a dime to endorse or play with their product. I was frankly shocked to see them win and I then wanted to know why?

The truth is, the Talisman, the Morri, the Kaumi, thee Tigers and many others are all fine tips. The Morri and Kamui come in what I call a soup can design; they are in the shape of a tall soup can. The top of the tip is flat. That is in their profit purpose, too tall, too fat. To shape and dome a tip like they had been done for centuries, is extra steps and extra expense.

Talisman makes a soup can tip like that, and I won’t sell it, I only sell the domed design, meaning its already cut down and shaped, almost ready to go on and I do not charge extra for that. Yes, with it being thinner, half the size of the fat cats, it’s going to last half as long. Do you want longevity, or do you want total performance. If you want longevity, put your Morri on fat, and it will take you 6 months to play and pound it in, then, it will begin finally to play like the Talisman. If you ever see Mike Massey perform, look as his tip, he is almost on the ferrule, his tip is thin, that is where the action is. A fat tip, absorbs too much energy, and performs less. So most of you are used to a fat tip, and like that, and if you got one cut down by half, you would feel cheated.

The truth is to make a soup can Morri play right; you have to cut off about 40% of the top of it, and then dome it to a dime. Most installers cut off about 10% and dome it to a nickel and it plays like a dog. Many know to get it to play strong, they have to cut it way back, but cutting off that much on a lathe, can now and then heat it up and blow up a tip and they just lost all the profit on the job replacing it. So why take that risk, they just put it on fat for you. They know most of you are too stupid to know. There is no incentive for them to cut this tip down for you, it’s extra work and has risk. So none do. The last tip install I did was on a Kamui and the guy said, put it on Fat, don’t cut is way down. I thought, thanks, look at all that work you saved me, just so the tip will last longer.

So if these Morris were cut down 40-50% and domed like the Talisman, their performance would be close or equal to the Talisman.

There is your truth. There is the secret.

Now let’s talk cost. Assuming all 3 of these are basically equal if they are all prepped the same. They would all play pretty close to each other, IMHO, none of these 3, are that much better than the other one.
Morri and Kamui, have no competition. They used to, Japan used to sell to many dealers here, but both now sell to only one master distributor, who then sells to the USA dealers.

When that occurred, the price of those tips doubled over night, the Master distributor, was making all the money, putting it in his pocket. He buys the tips from Japan, doubles or triples his cost, then sells to a USA dealer, who cuts a profit, and you then buy it at a badly inflated price.
So a Morri today in Japan, sells for $9 and a Kamui for $14, so then why does a Morri here sell for $15 and a Kamui sell for $16.75 in the brown, $19.75 in the black. The middle man and his profit.

Talisman has no middle man driving up the price. They sell to several USA dealers direct from Thailand like the Japanese used to, and since there is no middle man jacking the price up the Talisman sells for $7. If we hired and added a middle man like me, who would stock them, be a monopoly, I would then jack the price up to $14 also and smile all the way to the bank.

And there is the problem many buyers have, they can’t understand or accept that a $7 tip, can be as good as a $20 tip. Because they don’t know about the middle man jacking the price up. They have been brain washed that the more they pay for a tip, the better it is. And that is all hype, BS and you are just being coned. Kamui dyes their brown tip, makes it $19, Tiger says, that’s a great idea, we can dye our sniper, and stop selling it for $12 and now call it an Onyx and sell it for $21, the more you charge the more the suckers will pay for it. Kamui says, Ok, let’s raise our Black up to $19.75, and on a on it goes. Soon we will have a $25 tip, then a $30. I see this coming. Kamui just came out with a $25 single piece of chalk, because they are convinced they more they charge you, the more you buy from them.
So the first thing you must lose, is the more you pay for a tip, the better it is.

I hope this helps to explain to you, how all this works, and will allow you to be a better buyer in the future. An informed, an intelligent buyer, who knows the score, how it all works, never gets coned or buys overpriced hype. He is too smart for that.
Imagine what I did, you know the cost of installing a single top tip, what is the cost of buying and installing 27 top tips, thousands of dollars. And spending 3 days with two pros, new cloth, table time, cues, and shafts. It’s a $10,000 experiment only I would do. And you get the results of this test, for free. So you can accept my findings, or go blow 10K and 3 days and tell me what you came up with. I obviously, know a hell of a lot more about this subject, than you do, this you have to give me. I am the only one who has done this, done a scientific test with two pros to come up with an answer.

So you go on Az chat site and that entire place is, is an organized con telling you what to buy by those paying off the management for the right to shove it up your arse.

You go into pool chat, and there you get the truth. The problem is, most of you can’t accept, or handle the truth, when you get it. I will always give you the truth, like in this case, when it’s not in my financial best interest to wise you up. What do I make the most money on selling tips, Kamui, what tips to I want to sell the most, Kamui, what tips do I want you to buy? Kamui, what tips do I make the least money on, Talisman. Mooris are so competitive, the price is driven down so low, I make very little on them as well since they have no Map price enforcement.
Most of you put your tip on fat, with a nickel shape and then soon allow it to get even flatter. You don’t realize that its shape and size determines a lot of its performance. So put them on cut down, shape to a dime radius and use the blue diamond chalk and watch your spin and power increase.
What do I buy, soft, medium, hard? All layered tips are hard, so there is no real soft, its soft hard. The beginner or intermediate should use the S, the good player the M, and a top player should play the H.

:?: The other secret in tips, is the H, the hard, gives you the most power, follow, draw and spin. Many of you like me came up playing with single layer medium soft tips, and we like the feel of the hit. Forget feel, yes a Lepro with a durometer hardness 78 is going to feel better, but a Talisman H at 83, or a Morri Q, or even a triangle at 81, and it is going to out play it hands down. Get that soft feel, out of your head. You want a hardness between 82-83, I am playing with an 86. The Talisman X.

That is why the Tiger Sniper was so popular when it came out, feel, it was 78, same as the LePro. The 314 Predator shaft had great early success, guys thought it was the shaft, when it was the softer Lepro tip they pressed in the center which gave them that soft feel. A soft feel, is bad, it means, you have lost power and performance.

Kamui is pushing you guys in the wrong direction, harking soft tips, which is going backwards from what we have learned. They don't care, they are selling you a tip that plays less, because they know you will like the feel. This is what cons do, and they are cons. Their SS is 68, it is not super soft, the Talisman S is 64, its really Med soft, so you can't trust what cons hype and sell. Soft is an Elk Master at 60.

Many of you are playing with M's, and if you move up to an H, now watch your power explode.

Two more tips, stop using a nickle shape, go to a dime, never use a tip pik, it can delaminate layered tips, pull the layers apart which causes tip failure, so use a simple sandpaper file, and use a chalk that coats better than masters, which is now the new balabushka or blue diamond. Never put a Willard disc between your feet, stick the tip in and grind away, like trying to start a fire, it works with single layer tips, but with layered its too much tork. I use on, and hold it in my left hand, and lightly turn it about 10 times, keeping the tork and pressure down. I shape my tip first with the sandpaper file, then do the light final turns with the willard, to insure I have an even round cut.

A beginner should use the Talisman S, the intermediate the M, and the better player who has control of his cue ball, an APA 5 and up, should be using an H, a semi pro, or tour pro, the X. Go harder, not softer.

Beware there are fake tips being sold, especially in Morri, Kamui, even Talisman, the Chinese now fake everything. I import all 3 of these, direct, from Japan and Thailand and do not go through USA middlemen, which means your assured of getting the real deal from FLE POOL, and never a counterfeit copy.
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces"
Image
User avatar
Drake
Jucator
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:29 pm
Location: Romania

Re: Articol interesant despre pastilele de piele

Postby madfox » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:15 am

Nu stiu cine e jucatorul dar e reclama pe fata la Talisman, dupa mine o pastila medie spre proasta dpdv calitate
Tac de joc - P2 Leopard- Z3
madfox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Bucuresti

Re: Articol interesant despre pastilele de piele

Postby Drake » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:35 pm

Este vorba de un jucator foarte controversat de pool si trick-shot numit Fast Larry Guninger. Are si un forum de care am dat cand cautam informatii despre niste accesorii de biliard. Omul e ingamfat, bigot, irascibil dar in nebunia lui mai spune si cate un adevar de care altii se feresc sau sunt bine platiti sa taca din gura.

Ignorand reclama la Talisman in articol sunt cateva lucruri interesante:

1) Unele pastilele de piele laminata care in urma marketingului agresiv au ajuns la preturi ridicole de 20-30$ per bucata desi pretul de productie este de 10 ori mai mic. (ex kamui, Tiger Onyx, Predator Victory, Moori etc)

2) Marketingul mincinos si atotprezent care a acaparat lumea biliardului si mentalitatea tampita gen monkey see monkey do

3) De ce naiba pastilele laminate nu vin din fabrica cu forma deja data (acel dom sub forma de dime sau nickel)?

4) Pastilele Kamui black care in magazinele din Japonia sunt vandute cu 14$ iar in Europa si USA costa 22-25$. Pretul de productie e de 3-4$ cel mult per bucata si trecand prin diversi intermediari ajunge sa coste 25$. Asta numesc eu nesimtire. Dar pana la urma nu e prost cine cere e prost cine da.

5) Pastilele negre ex:Kamui Black/T.Onyx sunt defapt Kamui Original/T.Sniper "vopsite" si cu un pret umflat cu minim 30%.

6) Obsesia in masa cu pastilele super soft laminate pe care daca le modelezi si le aduci la 4-6 straturi cum e normal si apoi le testezi cu un durometru numai soft nu mai sunt. Dupa 10 ore de joc ajung undeva la duritate medie spre tare. Elk Master este cu adevarat o pastila soft.

7) Ce forma este mai buna: dime sau nickel?

8) Unealta numita tip-pik desi este foarte buna pentru pastilele dintr-o singura bucata de piele poate delamina foarte usor pastilele laminate

9) Majoritatea jucatorilor profesionisti folosesc pastile cu o duritate medie si tare (+80 durometru) care ofera per total cea mai buna performanta.
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces"
Image
User avatar
Drake
Jucator
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:29 pm
Location: Romania

Re: Articol interesant despre pastilele de piele

Postby madfox » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:27 pm

Drake wrote:Este vorba de un jucator foarte controversat de pool si trick-shot numit Fast Larry Guninger. Are si un forum de care am dat cand cautam informatii despre niste accesorii de biliard. Omul e ingamfat, bigot, irascibil dar in nebunia lui mai spune si cate un adevar de care altii se feresc sau sunt bine platiti sa taca din gura.

Ignorand reclama la Talisman in articol sunt cateva lucruri interesante:

1) Unele pastilele de piele laminata care in urma marketingului agresiv au ajuns la preturi ridicole de 20-30$ per bucata desi pretul de productie este de 10 ori mai mic. (ex kamui, Tiger Onyx, Predator Victory, Moori etc) Nu conteaza pretul daca de exemplu pe mine ma tine un kamui 1 an

2) Marketingul mincinos si atotprezent care a acaparat lumea biliardului si mentalitatea tampita gen monkey see monkey do Nu sunt de acord. daca nu imi place o pastila nu joc cu ea. E posibil sa te pacaleasca o data nu de mai mul;te ori. pastilele in straturi sunt mult mai constante ca si performante. daca vrei doar sa dai in bile cu prietenii, poti sa pui orice pastila

3) De ce naiba pastilele laminate nu vin din fabrica cu forma deja data (acel dom sub forma de dime sau nickel)? De obicei sunt mai mari decat ferula si daca au deja rotundul facut trebuie sa potrivesti centrul perfect altfel o sa ai rotundul plecat intr-o parte :lol:

4) Pastilele Kamui black care in magazinele din Japonia sunt vandute cu 14$ iar in Europa si USA costa 22-25$. Pretul de productie e de 3-4$ cel mult per bucata si trecand prin diversi intermediari ajunge sa coste 25$. Asta numesc eu nesimtire. Dar pana la urma nu e prost cine cere e prost cine da. Sper ca nu faci prosti mii de utilizatori de kamui.Uiti de TVA si taxe vamale din Japonia in alte continente Ai dreptul la parerea ta dar nu trebuie sa razi decate unii doar ca ti se par scumpe pastilele. Eu nu as juca cu altceva decat kamui sau G2 si sunt dispus sa platesc. 90 % din jucatorii de top din Romania folosesc kamui, moori sau G2

5) Pastilele negre ex:Kamui Black/T.Onyx sunt defapt Kamui Original/T.Sniper "vopsite" si cu un pret umflat cu minim 30%.cel putin la Kamui pretul e acelasi pentru negre sau maro, iar diferenta este ca cele negre sunt mai flexibile. Sunt de acord ca sunt totusi mult prea multe, dar Kamui este si o afacere. Totusi, nu scapa din vedere ca ei baga inapoi in acest sport foarte multi bani prin sponsorizari, si o parte a pretului este justificata si de aceste actiuni

6) Obsesia in masa cu pastilele super soft laminate pe care daca le modelezi si le aduci la 4-6 straturi cum e normal si apoi le testezi cu un durometru numai soft nu mai sunt. Dupa 10 ore de joc ajung undeva la duritate medie spre tare. Elk Master este cu adevarat o pastila soft.

7) Ce forma este mai buna: dime sau nickel? Nu exista cea mai buna. Depinde de tac, shaft si preferinte personale. Mie imi place rotundul mai accentuat de exemplu

8) Unealta numita tip-pik desi este foarte buna pentru pastilele dintr-o singura bucata de piele poate delamina foarte usor pastilele laminatecorect

9) Majoritatea jucatorilor profesionisti folosesc pastile cu o duritate medie si tare (+80 durometru) care ofera per total cea mai buna performantadepinde uite Souquet joaca cu soft, Deuel la fel. Sa zicem ca 60-70 % merg pe mediu hard
Tac de joc - P2 Leopard- Z3
madfox
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:13 pm
Location: Bucuresti


Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests