Bear = JC cues ?

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Bear = JC cues ?

Postby Viking » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:05 pm

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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby arnydm » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:05 am

Dacă seamănă la design înseamnă că au o legătură?
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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby AlexandruM » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:56 am

Da, exact asta inseamna, un design similar tradeaza de regula acelasi producator.

Avand in vedere realitatea zilelor noastre este clar ca productia pentru a fi profitabila trebuie sa fie in China sau Taiwan.

In cazul de fata avem un exemplu clasic cand o fabrica producatoare face acelasi produs, apoi il vinde catre sau acesta este comandat de catre alte firme de regula magazine cu accesorii de biliard. Producatorul tacului in discutie cu o siguranta de 99% este firma KPS din Taiwan. Aveti aici descrierea http://kpsbilliard.imb2b.com/introduce/ si datele de contact http://www.kpsbilliard.com.tw/contactus.html

Din cele citite de mine pe AZ acest producator a facut si face tacurile Falcon, Bear si altele.Iata cateva confirmari ale afirmatiei de mai sus:

1) Falcon is made there in Taiwan , I just recently bought a falcon and asked Falcon if I could get a Patch from them and it was sent from Taiwan

2) Falcon did not go out of business. They are one of the largest manufacturers of cues in the world. KPS is the parent company that is in Taiwan. Falcon was a Canadian manufacturing centre. They made Falcon and Bear Cues out of the Mississauga facility.

3) The majority of product coming out of the Falcon plant was the Predator line. They were contracted to build the butts and assemble the shafts for Predator. When the US dollar went in the tank a few years back, Falcon lost their financial advantage, that being the exchange rate. When the US dollar was worth $1.40Cdn, things were good. When they went to par, KPS decided to shut down the Canadian office. The reason they sold the equipment (most of it - the high end stuff went back home) was that it wasn't worth shipping cross country and sailing it back home.
Falcon is still being made the exact same way, with the exact same wood, and exact same quality. The Predator products are made by a different company, TaiCan, that produces Lucasi, amongst other lines.

4) FYI, KPS has been around a long time - they we one of the original forearm suppliers to Palmer cues and others back in the late 1970's through the 1980's - once they went to importing some of their forearms - them and Adam, Japan too.

5) They do not make cues in Canada, they did move production to China (Taiwan). They did so to make more money and increase their bottom line, I never said Falcon products were crap, and I never made any comments where their wood came from, so what are you disputing?

6) The entire facility in Canada was run by Asians. Most of them were from the plant in Taiwan. Some of them moved here when they opened the operation. Very few of them lost their jobs. So, are you saying the Canadian Asians did better work than the Taiwan Asians? When you cross the ocean, your cuemaking skills increase?
The wood supply came from the exact same location.

7) Ernie Cheng started falcon cues. I had one, it played nice but wasn't tapered like a sw. Mohawk cues didn't last too long. The pins are 3/8x10 flat bottom. Ernie tried his hand at cues a second time and with the help of Joss cues, Tyler cues was born. Out of those ashes Falcon was born. Great shaft wood on falcons. The missougua (?) Plant is where predator shafts and most of their butts where contracted to be built. Around 2006 or whenever the 314^2 first came out, I believe currency values caused the Canadian factory to close shop and relocate to China. I believe they are known as KPS. Mohawks are interesting cues, the 1st southwest knockoffs, but nothing special, imho. Older J&J cues are from the same factory. I'm still not 100% sure, but I believe Mohawks were made in Canada from foreign made blanks.


8) Funny story about hitting like a Joss. Ernie Chin learned how to make cues when he worked with Dan Janes at Joss. There are major differences in construction now between Joss and Falcon. If I had to buy one of these, it would be Joss. Dan has constantly changed his construction techniques to make his cues better. Falcon has just stuck with what worked back in the 90s. I see a lot of Falcons with warped butts due to the construction technique they used.

9) Those cues are made by KPS in Taiwan. The Falcon/Buffalo/Bear lines are KPS. Universal is made by Taican. They also make Predator, Poison, Lucasi, Players, Dufferin and a few other lines. Two different companies.

In concluzie, adevaratii producatori de tacuri nu sunt chiar asa de multi cum avem noi impresia.
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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby amabilu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:02 pm

Nu stiu daca chiar "adevaratii" producatori ci mai degraba cei cu traditie. E frumoasa aura asta aristocratica si elitista a producatorilor cu nume prestigioase insa vremurile se schimba. In prezent shaftul cel mai performant este facut de Predator in serie si pe banda in China de catre chinezi. Are de departe cea mai mica deflectie dintre toate shafturile, 0 costuri de intretinere, feeling la fel cu al lemnului. Probabil ca e o chestiune de timp sa l faca identic si la aspect cu lemnul, pentru cei nostalgici. Odata cu Revo devine istorie tot procesul laborios de alegere si prelucrare a lemnului .

Mai ramane butt ul, insa ala e mai putin important pentru joc. Cele cu lemn nobil si lucratura deosebita vor ramane mereu cu preturi pe masura dar, in rest, tehnologia face ca majoritatea tacurilor cu pret peste 50 dolari sa aiba o lucratura destul de ingrijita si chiar fara repros.

Concluzia mea este ca, in foarte scurt timp, doar considerente subiective vor diferentia tacurile in functie de producator, cu traditie sau nu, iar odata cu revolutia REVO, lucrurile se vor schimba definitiv.
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One with a little common sense would understand that there is no 'best', once there are choices established.

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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby madfox » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Asa este, informatiile date de Alexandru sunt corecte. Vand si ei pe toate partile.
Par la fel dar nu stim daca si joaca la fel. Insa pretul la JC mi se pare nesimtit pentru o marca total necunoscuta.
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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby amabilu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:31 pm

La Bear mi s au parut intotdeauna exagerate preturile pentru ce ofera. Cu 435 euro iti iei tac bun de brand reputat, un Mezz de purpleheart, de exemplu. Sau daca tot iau lemn vopsit mai pun un pic si iau Schon care si aia sunt vestiti pentru preturile un pic cam piperate ale tacurilor lor.
My name is Troll,James Troll!

One with a little common sense would understand that there is no 'best', once there are choices established.

Player:Poison Anthrax AX2-2+ Poison Venom2+ Sarin
Break:House cue
Jump:Van Hallen
Case:Classic Mozart Superior 2/4
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Re: Bear = JC cues ?

Postby Viking » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:25 pm

Alexandru, pertinent ca întotdeauna :)

Aveam impresia că Buffalo sunt făcute de Adam dar probabil că și Adam tot de acolo e.

Amabilule, nush de de ce am impresia că un Bear e mai helpful în joc decât un Schon sau Pechauer cu lovitură de par, acea muuuult lăudată, lovitură "solida". Nu știu de ce trebuie să fie solidă. Pt. mine, dacă nu flexeaza shaftul nu mă ajută de aia am preferat ob, că nu e așa stiff și are feeling. in fine, e părerea mea. Dacă poți plimba alba cu ușurință, talentat fiind și antrenat, probabil că nu te deranjează lovitura de par a unui Schon sau Pechauer sau deflexia enormă. Sau dacă joci de 45 de ani pe masă de 8 feet, în bar în Alabama.
Buttul contează. Acea forta radiala vine și de la el. Lipsa vibrației vine și din buttul solid, făcut din bucăți, felii longitudinale sau din segmente îmbinate unul peste altul (Pechauer).
De aici și preferința multora pt. butt "de firmă" și shaft "speciality". Și frumos, și performant. :)
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